00:00
00:00
Sheizenhammer
If you find me ignorant, enlighten me.

Age 36, Male

Zzzzzz...

Yarm, UK

Joined on 12/31/08

Level:
32
Exp Points:
11,230 / 11,370
Exp Rank:
2,719
Vote Power:
7.37 votes
Rank:
Staff Sergeant
Global Rank:
1,417
Blams:
3,229
Saves:
3,037
B/P Bonus:
26%
Whistle:
Deity
Medals:
178

Rage's thread, D.I.Y style.

Posted by Sheizenhammer - July 26th, 2009


NOTE: There is no TL;DR. There never will be a TL;DR. Read all of it (especially the links), or don't read it at all. Only knowing bits of the story when it comes to the whistle system is what causes people to lose their whistles. You have been warned; it's not my fault you were too lazy to read all of it and went incorrectly flagging things no-one told you were abusive. Whining at me will get you nowhere.

--------------------------------------
------------

As many people know, Rage's thread was designed to give users the chance to up their whistle level, while helping the review mods get rid of all the review abuse from before the whistle system was implemented. While it proved a valuable resource for mods and regulars alike, it eventually became the victim of its own popularity, and was flooded with inaccurate judgements on what should and shouldn't be whistled, and because of the persistant headache it caused the review mod team, in the end it was locked.

There have since been a few attempts to re-create or copy the thread by users in the hope of getting links to "free whistle points". So far, they have all either fallen into obscurity, or been removed because of the exact same problems that ended up plaguing Rage's thread.

The main reason Rage's got locked was that people with misguided ideas of what was abusive and what wasn't were posting links to non-abusive reviews, which were then incorrectly flagged by other, equally misguided users (and people who were just flagging everything blindly). The result: The noobs got broken whistles, and the review mods often had to go into the thread and delete / belay the post linking to the review(s), thereby wasting their time.

This exact problem appears every time the method used by Rage's thread is tried. By posting links to reviews and telling people: "This is abusive, flag it.", there will be constant mistakes of that nature. This is where the point of this post comes in:

Instead of throwing a load of links here and telling everyone to flag the reviews they go to, another option is to tell people how to find said reviews on their own, without needing to be spoonfed by other people's links. So here you go: Everything I know about finding the damn things.

--------------------------------------
-----------------------

First things first: What should you whistle?

This is something I'll not be giving specifics on, for the aforementioned reasons (and the fact that I'm not a mod, so you shouldn't be listening to specific rules advice from me anyway :P). However, if you want to play the whistle game, you need to learn to play it right, so here's a few useful links:

1. The review guidelines. Anything that's a direct violation of these will most likely be abusive, so it's a good idea to know them inside out before starting to look for abuse.
2. The review answers thread. It makes for a good read when trying to decide if something's abusive or just plain useless, and gives a lot of information about those areas of the review guidelines that are less well explained.
3. The new review answers thread. In addition to the same kind of advice the last one gives, this one is still unlocked, so if you have a question about something that hasn't been asked already, this is a good place to start (that is, if any review mods ever remember to check it!).
4. A reminder. While some of it is more a matter of opinion than anything else, it is still accurate with regards to what we do and don't know about the whistle system itself.
5. The abusive review game. It serves as a decent test of knowledge and understanding of the rules, as well as reinforcing everything linked to above it.

And remember: IF IN DOUBT, DON'T FLAG! Flagging stuff that could go either way with the review mods can cost you much more than you stand to gain by trying for a few extra whistle points in this manner.

--------------------------------------
-----------------------

Done reading? OK, time to go find some abusive reviews! Listed below are all the places and tricks I like to go / use to find review abuse.

1. Turd of the week.
By far the easiest place to find abusive reviews is the TOTW (well, whenever it's not deleted at least). Just about every review guideline gets routinely broken here by butthurt idiots who think the review system is the same as YouTube's comment box. Lots of easy whistle points are left there every day, so be sure to check it regularly.

2. Front paged stuff.
The largest amount of web traffic goes through the front page, so naturally the most reviews get left for things on the front page. Ones to watch for are those submissions with 'adult' ratings or other questionable content, which often makes people use the review space for yelling at the author BECAUSE it's on the front page. Giving a flash a low score because of something the author has no control over is almost always abusive, and this makes odd frontpage choices a sensible thing to look into for abusive reviews.
However, it's not just the weird shit that gets review abuse, as the frontpage is also the most popular target for spammers and ad-bots, which will leave referral links and other blatantly abusive stuff in the review space. And let's not forget all the dumbass youtube commenters (who plainly haven't read the review guidelines) coming to the frontpage just to leave their crappy 2 cents on everything. All the random noobery on the front page alone can add up to a lot of abusive reviews a day.

3. The top 50 / weekly award winners.
As above, but often to a lesser extent. "This shouldn't be on the top 50 so here's a zero" is a common theme here, as well as all the usual review stupidity.

4. the 'Sort by score' button.
If you want to find abuse on a popular flash, but don't want to wade through hundreds of decent reviews just to find a few abusive 0-bombs, then this button is for you. Click on the text that says '567 reviews' (or however many reviews it has) to get to the review list for the flash. At the top there'll be a 'sort by date / rating' option. It's set to 'date' by default. By changing it to 'rating', and going to the last page of reviews, most of the hateful 0-bombing ones will have been distilled out of the rest of them, making it much easier to find them.
It might also be worth looking through the first few pages of the other end of the scale too, as some 10-reviews go too far when it comes to praising the flash (read: ascii art, text flooding etc.). It won't find all the abuse on a flash, but it makes a few dumb review types obvious at any rate.

5. Spam flashes.
Hoo boy, this one can get hilariously dumb. The abuse is so obvious I don't even need to go into why things from spam crews are worth looking at. Basically, anything with a Clock Crew, Lock Legion, Star Syndicate, or any of the countless other spam crew tags will get its fair share of shit, just for being made by a spam crew. Hell, some CC flashes are actually good, and people still tell the authors to go die in a fire for making it, just because they see spam as something to be destroyed at all costs.

6. New flash submissions.
The under judgement stuff can still be reviewed, even though said reviews can't be seen by anyone. Sometimes, people will use this fact to leave deliberately abusive stuff on flashes they think won't pass judgement (in which case, the review will be visible only in the obituaries, away from the reach of the whistle system). Sometimes these predictions go wrong, resulting in very obvious abuse being left on newly passed flashes. They get removed relatively quickly, but if you can catch them they make for free whistle points, so it's worth a look every now and then.

7. The Audio portal front page (especially the top 5).
Due to the lack of traffic, the audio portal gets very few reviews left in comparison with the flash portal. However, because of that same fact, the abusive reviews left there will stay there for much longer than your average abusive flash review. This is especially true for things that have gone off the front page, but the easiest place to find audio abuse is the top 5, where people often like to bitch about things being in the top 5, and giving them lousy scores because "this shit doesn't deserve it!".
Protip: the top 5 is selected by A-Bot, based on votes alone. If it gets in the top 5, then (by definition of what a vote signifies) it DOES deserve it!

8. 'Meme' flashes.
Lazers, Barrel rolls, desserts of questionable veracity; you name it, if it's in a flash people will be tempted to spew whatever meme the flash is about. A good example of this is the Lazer collab series: the number of ascii art shoops I've flagged in the review lists for them is just moronic. Same goes for any other flash that either started or is centered around a meme.
(This includes flashes that start NG related memes and activities, like the infamous 'B').

9. People's review lists.
If you see a blatantly abusive review, check the rest of the user's review list by clicking on the link in the review (to go to his userpage), and then scrolling down to the 'flash reviews' or 'audio reviews' links at the bottom. A really bad review is practically proof of not knowing the review guidelines, and if they leave one abusive review (be it through ignorance or malice), chances are there'll be more where it came from.
However, if you find a link spammer with more than a handful of spam reviews, it's best to notify a review mod instead of flagging them all, as review mods have said that they don't always give out points for every single review left by spambots and whistled, and can just destroy the whole list. Ergo, you'd be wasting your time if you flagged them all. Small lists of spam is usually OK (since they can be cleaned up with the normal tools), but it's still worth contacting a mod over it (after flagging them all first :P).

10. The obituaries.
Weird, no? The last place you'd expect to find abusive reviews is somewhere where you can't actually flag anything. However, applying no.9 to the obituaries can turn up some surprising stuff in people's review lists. It doesn't matter if the flash was deleted or not, the review was still written, and if it shows a complete lack of knowledge of the review rules, then the same thing usually applies here too.
This doesn't have as high a success rate as looking in the lists of reviewers of recent (non-deleted) flash, since abusive reviews aren't cleaned completely from the system on deletion, and will re-appear in the obituaries if the flash gets deleted, meaning the review abuse you would've found by looking in the existing flash reviews may have been removed already by the time you find it in the obituaries (more so than when you use new flashes as start points to look for abusive review lists).

And if all else fails:

11. Google advanced.
Why bother searching yourself when you can get the world's most powerful search engine to do the work for you?
Well, a couple of good reasons actually. The first is that it's way more fiddly to set up and use, and also that it can bring back abusive reviews from ages ago (like, pre-2003 when there weren't any review guidelines at all). However, when used properly (and when it works) it can make finding abusive reviews very, very easy.
Firstly, go to the Google advanced search option, and enter any of the following in the "Search within a site or domain" box at the bottom:

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/revie ws (for flash reviews).
or
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/review s (for audio reviews).
or
http://www.newgrounds.com/art/reviews (for art reviews).

Then, enter whatever keywords you can think of in either of the two top boxes. 'fuck you', 'stolen', 'php?act=idx' (<= it's a common part of several popular spam links) 'blam this', 'front page', or anything else you can think of to use as keywords when looking for questionable reviews. If there are any reviews containing the keywords you enter, Google will find them. However, it can't tell the difference between a review and the authors response to a review (and sometimes it can bring back results of already deleted reviews for some reason). It takes practice, and patience, but there's no hiding from Google. If it's been left, regardless of where or when, Google can find it, making it a powerful tool when looking for them.

And lastly:

12. Everywhere else.
Hell, some of the most retarded crap I've ever seen was found by complete accident while going through old favorites, random portal entries, and so on. Just because a flash / audio / art submission doesn't fit any of these points doesn't mean there won't ever be any abusive reviews left on it. Just keep your eyes open, and be curious about what might be in that last flash's review list. If you have a hunch about something, why not go look there as well? It can't hurt, right?

--------------------------------------
----------------------

That's all, folks!

Although, by no means is this a definitive list. I'm sure there are loads of other tips and tricks at everyone's disposal that I don't know about. If you want to share any tips you have, or want to add anything to what's been written here, please do. The more collective advice that gets posted here, the better.

NOTE: I will let people post links to flashes that get more than their fair share of review abuse, provided the following is heeded in their comments:

- It isn't the TOTW, on the front page, or somewhere else already covered in this newspost. That's just pointless given the context of all this.
- No links to reviews / descriptions of which reviews should be flagged / anything that points out exact reviews. That's what killed Rage's thread, and I'm not letting comments with any of that same spoonfeeding mentality through.
- It actually does attract a lot of genuine abuse. Only if you're absolutely sure what you're seeing in the review list is against the rules (i.e. you've read the review guidelines and the linked threads, and have seen a review mod say that what you're reading shouldn't be in the review space), should you be posting it here.

And above all else, have fun laughing at all the hopeless, moronic, and downright bizarre things people like to write in that review box. Enjoy!

Rage's thread, D.I.Y style.


1

Comments

Damn man, I got a headache from reading that. lmao, but all in all, I think I'm getting better and better at finding the abusive reviews. That and some of my fellow EGB members have flagged the reviews I give them and vice versa.

Teamwork between people who know what they're looking for is a good way of combining whistle power and removing abusive reviews quickly, but it doesn't work if you don't have a team to work with. The people who aren't being helped by anyone are the people this was written for (so they can help themselves).

And it's a major TL;DR, I know, but I wasn't going to shorten it because then lazy-assess would end up only reading bits of it and then bawwing at me when it costs them their whistle.

(Attn, lazy-asses: you have been warned! :P)

I can understand your rationale behind the TL;DR laziness begets a whistle up shit's creek w/o a paddle and your ass being majorly butthurt. *cough*EMOS*cough* rofl

Yeah, fuck emos. Fuck 'em all.

The last sentence in gumonshoe's locking post for Rage's thread says you shouldn't create newsposts emulating the purpose of Rage's thread. I got in trouble for making a newspost of it too, so just a fair warning.

Apart from the title, this has nothing in common with the old Rage's thread. The idea here is not to have a huge clusterfuck of links to non-abusive reviews; it's about sharing information on how to go away and find them on your own. What you ultimately deem to be whistle-worthy is entirely up to you, and no-one here will tell you what you should and shouldn't do with your whistle (that's what indirectly ended up destroying Rage's thread).

I learned a LOT from u, just from this post. :D

Wow, you actually read it? I think you're only the second person to bother.

Your e-cookie's in the post. :)

Yeesh. Somebody's got their shit down. I did read the entire thing, and I am one of the many who can say Rage's thread did end up tanking my whistle However, I'm not one to bitch about things, I'm just slogging through the task of getting it back up to par, and I can say, this has given me a few useful tips I hadn't even thought of before. Thankee much.

-*)IM471(*-

That's the spirit! OK, you may have got a screwed whistle, but as long as you're still willing to try to help get rid of site abuse, it'll get better eventually.

While we don't know much about the points themselves, one known fact is that there is no such thing as a 'permanent' garbage whistle. Even if you hit rock bottom with it and can't go down any further, you can still dig yourself out. All it takes is knowledge of where you were going wrong with it, and more importantly, the patience to put it right.

I'm glad this was helpful (and that some people at least are actually reading it!).

Glad to see others taking initiative in cleaning up Newgrounds. I know that I'm no mod here (here being the operative word), but I'd like to help out with the tools given to me, and it's refreshing to find others doing the same thing. I found your protip with Google to be a rather helpful aid, I'll be sure to help others out the same way you are.

Thanks, although this was not written under any kind of naiive assumption that it's possible to 'clean up' NG. There will always be site abuse (in the form of both flashes and reviews), so there will always be a need for those willing to get rid of it. The task is both endless and largely thankless, however it's still worth doing in my opinion. I've talked to several of NG's animators in person, and they all say that the more constructive criticism they get, the more they want to do better at it. For this reason, it's worth trying to stop the review box degenerating into YouTube comments and spam, and keeping it as focused on its original purpose as possible.

Still, it's nice to see people taking notice of this all the same. I'm glad it helped. :)

Very informative stuff. Pretty thorough, too.

Before, I didn't quite believe in hunting down crud just to shore up points for the whistle per se. It left a vibe of being someone deliberately looking for trouble just so they can sadistically lower the boom (sort of the way I felt about my dad when I was a boy). I always thought I should blow the whistle when I just stumbled across muck as I came or went naturally.

However, I see that ripping out the stink-weeds that have invested Newgrounds' garden is going to take a scorched earth policy, and some coordinated help wouldn't hurt. Thanks for a very well written piece, and the good advice!

For the record, I don't like people who do this SOLELY for the points either. The motivation for anyone using the whistle should be to get rid of site abuse, and the motivation for me writing this was to share what I'd learned on where said abuse accumulates, and help people who were genuinely interested in keeping standards in the review box (only those with interests greater than the points alone would bother reading all this anyway).

There is one more review trick I know of, which can result in a ton of free whistle points (far more than any of the described ones), but it involves acting more like a statwhoring vulture than someone who cares about the essence of why we have review rules in the first place. For this reason, I decided not to share it, extra points oppourtunities or not.

Still can't believe I missed my own review hunt. :*( oh well. with this I'll just be flagging alone. but more accurately.

Question: how many flags does it take to get a review into question?

No-one knows. Liljim kept the mechanics of the system itself to himself. It has been suggested that it can take as many as 20 normal flags, whereas only 3 or 4 Deity flags are needed. This was little more than an estimated guess though, so it can't really be relied upon.

At the end of the day, I don't suppose it matters. If it's abusive, it'll get brought to someone's attention eventually (even if it does take months).

Goddamn that's a long post. Good work on this. Certainly will help my whistle in the future. :)

You're welcome. Just make sure you read all the links as well, otherwise this post is pretty much useless.

I've had to delete a couple of posts made by someone posting links to review lists here. I know I'm being a nazi about it, but it HAS to be a link to a flash / audio / art submission for it to be allowed here. Posting the review list for the submission just makes it unnecessarily easy for people to click the link and blindly flag everything they see.

If you want to help, post a link to something that gets a sustained flow of abuse on it, not something that'll never have another review again once it falls off the portal front page (if the abusive reviews all get removed, the link is no longer relevant, and I don't see why it should stay here). A good example of the kind of thing I'm on about is this:

<a href="http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/492389">http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view /492389</a>

Look for stuff in the collections, old featured content, or anywhere else that people can still find relatively easily, that deals with things people love to argue over and hate on people for parodying. Those are the things that need the attention of something like this the most.

hehe, sorry about that XP

No biggies. Hell, the reason I set this thing to approved comments is so I don't have to ban people for causing problems with links in their comments. I can just get rid of improper links in comments with no harm done like this, so don't worry about it.

Just as long as it doesn't happen again, OK?

Hoo boy, NOW you've got the idea! Good job. :)

Also:

<a href="http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/400192">http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view /400192</a>

Be sure to point and laugh at the kids emo-ing in the review box too!

Since when.....

....Buh?

<a href="http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/reviews/514059/1">http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/revi ews/514059/1</a>

Gotta love the abusive reviews that fileswaps get. :P

Already gone, annoyingly.

Protip: if you know it's gonna get deleted anyway (as fileswaps almost always are), there's little point in posting it here since the link is only useful for a few hours at most.

If it escapes being deleted (it falls off the front page), then by all means I'd like to know about it, but until it does there's too much of a chance of the above happening to really warrant posting it here.

EDIT: Also, see my post about review lists a few comments up from this one. ;)

Most known for being a koala in Aristotle's 4th chain dimension, this user has surpassed all expectations of what it means to be helpful to the review moderators. Ah. I feel as if me telling you this in this era will change the outcome of the near, yet currently unattainable, future.

You lost me somewhere around shoving chains of koalas up Aristotle. Or something.

Um... thanks? (o_0)

Ouch with the long post and all, but you really answered alot of my questions and I think my whistle will start to improve now.

Yeah, it's a long-ass read, but IMO, if you can't be bothered to learn what the whistle is for, you probably shouldn't be using it.

Hope all this helps! ;)

I can't believe people comment like that and feel like their doing something right or being civil.

The keyword there being "comment". It's NOT a comment box for a reason.

Although, I see your point. Even if it were a comment box, you'd have to be pretty dumb to think ranting like the example shown has any positive effect at all (or any effect besides making the commenter look like an idiot).

Still, the internet is full of dumb kids who haven't yet learned to keep their faggotry to themselves, so I suppose it's inevitable. That picture is actually out of a collection of several especially dumb ones I kept, so it is by no means unique in its moronity. :/

I blame YouTube. Stupid YouTube.

TL;DR, lmfao. jk

Must...not...push...ban...button.
..!!!!

Lol. :P

<a href="http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/454539">http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view /454539</a>

Paperbombpro insults the author, so it's abusive, right?

^^First and only time I'm letting a comment like this through.

As for the question: Up to you.

This isn't about telling people to flag specific things, remember? There are ample links up there that will help you decide if something's abusive or not, but the end choice about flagging anything is yours, not mine. Or anyone else's ('cept the review mods who wrote most of the linked things).

More Results